tag : bright yellow-green apples: supposed support

"I see little point in persisting in a discussion with one so obstinate as you" Martin White

Wednesday, July 27, 2005

supposed support



figure 31.8. I am the weight of the roof

Apparently there are those going around telling the Tories that they need to be faith, flag and family in the manner or some USA Republicans.

Leaving aside the moot point of whether and how such an approach could find fertile soils in our country, in the same way it would in the USA, I find this line questionable - most of all on the point of religion . Such lines as

“We believe these values must be stressed: tradition; nation; family; religious ethics; free enterprise.”

Edward Leigh has basically set religion, or more precisely Christianity, up as a bulwark of a notion of the status quo. This peeves me off a lot - how dare he try and appropriate our religion into his party political efforts? Not least in using them as some automatic guarantor of his brand of social outlook. At best he omits to notice that religion has been in the vanguard of radical change, and at worst to notice the religion might inspire people to other outlooks than a conservative ethic/laissez faire economic.

11 Comments:

Anonymous James Stewart said...

Well the old description of the CoE as "the tory party at prayer" needs to have come from somewhere...

2:01 AM  
Blogger postliberal said...

Indeed, it's probably still true, around the CofE - and other parts of the Church in general. I'd like to hope that no longer applies in some ways. And perhaps it doesn't insofar as some parts of the CofE are too liberal, and some others too right wing for them now!

1:17 PM  
Blogger Martin said...

Haha, thanks for the subtle reference! I should like to demonstrate this point by asking a group of people to help me build a cathedral PHYSICALLY.

This philosophy of Mr Leigh's is, of course, all tremendously bollocks and reminds me a little of that Christian Institute 'Which MPs voted conserv... er, Christian...' thingy just before the election.

Having said that, you can't really cordon off religion and politics -

9:16 PM  
Blogger hatchris said...

I heard the guy talking about it on 5 live. If I was in the C of E leadership I'd want nothing to do with his movement - he'd want to keep what I see as the worst elements of our dear church, ie as a sort of Sunday club for us English types to have our bit of religion on a Sunday, because that's what we've always done. God help us!
I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more national pride and love of all things eccentric and British around the place, but not in the scary American model at all. It's dangerous to tie up a religion to close to ones national identity, the 'God is English/American/insert appropriate nation' problem. In that case, when the country becomes unpopular, the religion falls with it!

9:55 PM  
Blogger hatchris said...

BTW on the subject of Liberals in the C of E I have heard it said that it is no longer the tory party at prayer, but that the Lib Dems are the modern Church of England in politics :-D

9:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

tiddly pom

11:34 PM  
Blogger postliberal said...

Martin -

I hoped you'd notice, cos that was the point of the reference ;P

I wouldn't make any attempt to decouple the two in a principled sense. But I would like to see a proper recognition, by some, of the great bredth in expression that people manage to fashion (another polar example being the Christian Socialists). Religion can mean so many things to politics, even if some of us like some forms more than others.

12:40 AM  
Blogger postliberal said...

Chris -

It's an unfortunate view of establishment religion, peddled. That form certainly deserves to be threatened by decline, if only to make it think and face up to things. Something that's able to work with the system, challenge it, comfortabley...that would seem to be healthy.

And yes, the prevarications and constant muddling around about everything, certainly sounds like a good characature of either! But then, they say the tories used to be so sucessful because they were so pragmatic rather than ideological.

1:10 AM  
Blogger postliberal said...

Anonymous -

That makes about as much sense as any of us - thanks! Who are you, go on please tell...

1:12 AM  
Anonymous RobertB said...

I guess that might perversely explain why the LibDems are the only party to have a manifesto policy on (dis)establishment. But I think the CofE is more akin to the fabled Lib-Lab Coalition At Prayer.

This alone can explain why General Synod is elected by Single Transferable Vote...but...votes cast only by members of focus-groups (strictly speaking, we call them deanery synods).

2:15 AM  
Anonymous dmariemart@aol.com said...

Well said, my friend!

2:10 AM  

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